Where Do We Go From Here?

This is my one annual post which I get to make about any on topic thing I want. In the past I’ve used this for meaningless rants about the community and cryptic nonsense I’ve spewed from some magically induced altered state. This year I want to talk about what I’ve been doing spiritually, where I am, and the choices and decisions I’m faced with. I’m hoping to open discussion and get some advice on what to do next.

First, what I’ve been doing as of late (obviously I haven’t been writing posts). For years now I’ve been working on a book dealing with evocations and seances. It’s going to be a wonderful book. It has a lot of original rituals and techniques I’ve developed myself, and of course they’re all highly creative and a bit insane. It also has all of my notes on evocations, explanations of the classical methods, a premier on magic, and even a list of several hundred new spirits to contact. It takes a completely new approach to evocations too, one that is more inline with my own morals and beliefs and involves few protections and a non-aggressive approach at bargaining with spirits.

I wish I could say that I’ve been busy getting the book published, but unfortunately it isn’t anywhere near finished yet. In fact if the last few years are any indication, it’ll probably be decades before the thing is ready. It’d make a nice ending to my blog though. A complete and powerful system for performing evocations and seances, and made simple enough so that anyone who has ever successfully cast a spell could master it.

While writing the book I came up an idea for a magical operation. Actually a series of five operations. It’s one of those ideas that is so stupid-crazy that someone would have to be a complete idiot to even contemplate going through with it after hearing what it is, especially since there isn’t any real purpose for doing it, except to see what would happen if someone did do it. Anyways I’ve completed three of the operations so far, with two more to go.

And so far I’ve seen my power rise exponentially. Empathically I’m hypersensitive right now. When I’m extremely depressed I’m feeling things out, metaphysically, far better than I could on my best day in the past, and on my best days have now become  overwhelming. I’ve been depressed lately, manic too. I’m having issues dealing with all this energy and emotion. I’m working it out, but I still need more time.

And oh, the energy. I think I’ve been shedding more every minute than I was making in a whole day before. Tiny little chakras I never noticed before have been pushing out massive amounts of energy.

Not to mention all of the other things that have been happening. I’m starting to understand precognition on a level I never could before. I’m constantly being bombarded with crazy ideas for rituals and experiments. Today I was driving, and I noticed if I concentrated right I could see reality constantly crumple up and then get rewritten as a solid tangible thing. It’s hard to describe correctly, but I think I was seeing the constant flux of the future as the present approaches it.

I have no ideas what kind of power I’m now in possession of, or what sorts of things it could be used for. I’ve yet to fully master emotional control when dealing with this level of energy, let alone explore it. And I still have two more operations to go.

The operations are brutal. The first one nearly killed me, and it was a horrific experience. They always surprise me too, and never turn out the way I expect they will. It takes all of my energy to endure them, and it seems to take about two weeks for the full effects to kick in.

But it isn’t a difficult operation. It’s very simple magic. It takes about twenty minutes to do, and it requires no tools. I took a very simple and basic magical technique, and I modified it just a little bit. A month or two of intense study, and someone who has never studied magic or metaphysics could do these rituals. If you’ve ever successfully cast a spell, I could probably teach it to you in a day.

It might kill you though. In fact, I’d really like to know if it would. Does it just bring you close to death, or did I only survive because of how strong I am? And what would the energy rise be like for someone who wasn’t as far advanced, spiritually, as I am? These are questions I’d like answered.

Here’s the thing, now that I’ve stumbled upon this awesome bit of magic, I have no idea what to do with it. I could hoard it, and never share it with anyone. Or I could start a group, have a whole inner and outer circle thing going even, and share it that way. I could publish it in the book I’m planning to write, or publish a new book about it, or just post it on my blog. Lots and lots of options.

And if I did share it, would anyone even want it? I know the power aspect sounds great, but just this week I read a series of posts and articles in the blogosphere community about the importance of following instructions and not toying around with magic, because it’s dangerous. It’s an attitude I’m out right disgusted by, and I have no real respect for any of its proponents. Yeah, an electrician probably follows instructions when he wires a house, but Benjamin Franklin tied metal to a kite and flew it in an electricity experiment that probably should’ve killed him. Are we as magicians aspiring to be something comparable to a common tradesman, or something comparable to Benjamin Franklin?

I have no desire to share this information with the armchair community. It’s not something to be thought about, and pondered, and to sit among a thousand downloaded books on magic, filled with a million rituals and techniques that were never tried and sometimes never even read. It’s something that is supposed to be done and experienced, and that’s where its value lies. I’d rather keep the information to myself than send it out there with the thought that maybe, one day, someone will be foolish enough to see this through again.

So what are everyone else’s thoughts on what I should do with this, and what you’d like to see me do with this? Anyone else brave enough to see this all the way through? It really is a horrible experience, so much so that after I performed the first ritual, it took me nearly a month to gather up the courage to try the second one. It isn’t all together unpleasant, but there is a lot of unpleasantness.

31 Responses to Where Do We Go From Here?

  1. kiyarasabel says:

    Yes. Let it free. Admittedly, I am not one to just jump into every ritual, but I’m still just barely more than a beginner with this stuff.

    However, I have a friend who would likely be VERY interested in this, and I’ll send him a link over here.

  2. HK says:

    I would certainly like to see you post instructions–but that’s my selfishness speaking. I’m highly interested in experimental magick, and the small group I work with has spent the last couple of years working to push our limits as hard as we can. If nothing else I want to see more details about this set of operations so that I could attempt a cost-benefit analysis. (Though I am pretty bad at those–I’ll get halfway through the list before giving into my impatience and just trying the task at hand with no further thought to consequences.)

    What I’m most curious to know right now, however, is this: Are these rituals set up in a linked manner so that it would be injurious to stop partway? You said you’ve done three out of five. Do you think you would suffer adverse effects if you failed to see the whole course through, or could you safely quit where you are now?

    • Rob says:

      Not having finished the operations, I can’t really say if I’m better off now or having finished them. I’m still not sure what the full effects of the third operation are, since I’m still short of the two week period.

      My predictions about the first three operations, both what they would be like and what the effects would be, were completely off, so I can’t really predict what will happen with the final two operations. I’m completely in the dark about how those two operations will turn out.

      That said, I don’t see a reason why I wouldn’t finish them at this point. Having gotten this far, I want to see where it’s all heading. So far the first ritual was the worst, and if I was going to stop it would’ve been after that one. The after effects of the first ritual, meanwhile, were comparatively minor.

      • HK says:

        I would love to see your notes on predictions vs. actual results. I’m also curious about how you rate “unpleasant” in your descriptions–is this Goetic unpleasant, Waters of the Moon unpleasant, non-Euclidean geometry and tentacled horrors unpleasant?

  3. neriphim says:

    I was reading through intent on seeing something I could try. Instead I just got to read about how powerful and dangerous it would be.

    This makes me a sad Panda :-(

    • Rob says:

      Would you like a consolation prize?

      Imagine the Earth. Imagine the Sun. Imagine the distance between the Earth and the sun.

      Here’s where it gets tricky. Imagine there’s a second Earth directly behind the Sun, the same distance away as our earth. In other words you go from our Earth to the Sun, and then you keep going through it to the other side, and travel the exact same distance away. Yes I know nothing there, but just imagine there’s another Earth there for the moment.

      Try to feel out that point in space. Try to feel out the energy of what’s there. Try to tap into that energy, and mix it with your own.

      Pretty neat, huh? I wonder why it does that. If you just pick a random point in space, it doesn’t do that. Some used to believe there was an alternate Earth there we could never see, but space pictures have disproved that theory.

      • HK says:

        Perhaps it does that because that’s where the L3 Lagrange point of the Sun-Earth system is? That point could not hold an alternate Earth due to its instability, though it may yet be possible to balance a smaller object there.

        There’s a chance this energy could be tested by also projecting into or feeling out the other Lagrange points and seeing how similar/different they may be to the energy found at the L3.

      • Ananael Qaa says:

        A similar technique shows up in European alchemy, particularly the work of Jean Dubuis and the Philosophers of Nature. This technique involves working with the “Invisible Sun.” Every planet follows an elliptical orbit with the Sun at one of the foci of the ellipse. The other focus is called the Invisible Sun, as it is the focal point at which the Sun is not. As such, there’s an Invisible Sun point for every one of the ancient planets aside from the Moon.

        • Rob says:

          Thanks for the info. I’ve never heard of Dubuis before. Admittedly I was never too big on alchemy. I’ll have to look into some of his work when I get some more time.

  4. diogeneia says:

    I believe I am about to make an unpopular post just now, but bear with me, Rob. I respect and enjoy your posts, and have always viewed you in a positive light regardless of the fact that I do not know you personally… but I question the wisdom of your approach with this one. It seems almost like a plea for guinea pigs in a possibly dangerous magical experiment posted to an somewhat anonymous crowd of folks most of who, I’d bet, you are largely unfamiliar and unacquainted with:

    “It might kill you though. In fact, I’d really like to know if it would. Does it just bring you close to death, or did I only survive because of how strong I am? And what would the energy rise be like for someone who wasn’t as far advanced, spiritually, as I am? These are questions I’d like answered.”

    Will you engage those who approach you via this forum? Or are you truly just looking for opinions here? If you will engage them, are you prepared to take the time to get to know anyone who expresses interest this through this forum? You will likely be the senior in experience, the teacher, the master… IMHO there is responsibility there, even if it is simply ethical responsibility. (I am not assuming you don’t know this or don’t feel this way or any way, nor am I presuming to judge you… I am asking questions and making observations based only on what you’ve posted.)

    At this point, with the limited information (and air of mystery) with which you have presented this, I’m not sure I see the benefit of or wisdom in enticing your readers (who may or may not be part of that “armchair community”.

    This is generally the sort of thing that is discussed within a more closed, intimate and experienced magickal group–at least in my experience. Not for the purposes of esotericism, but for safety and some semblance of control over the magickal experiment.

    I very well may have misread your intentions here, but I did read the post a couple of times and don’t really feel my take on this was unreasonable. But feel free to reply (or explain) or not, as you wish. I’ve come to like you via your posts, so I have no beef. Please don’t think I do. (And that goes for any of your readers who may feel they need to rush to your defense). :)

    Pax.

    • Rob says:

      Adiemus once advised me to never let myself become attached to a student, because eventually it’d be in the best interest of their studies that I advised them to do something that would probably get them killed. Then again Adiemus’s students had a habit of committing suicide. Still I’d rather be taught by Adiemus than a teacher that wanted to protect me. He’s cold, and cruel, and maybe even something akin to a sociopath, and in that regard I don’t think I’m anything like him, but I agree with him. The methods he advises produce the best results and the strongest students, and in terms of my own spirituality, I’d rather be better than safer. So I have to ask myself, by protecting my students am I doing them a disservice, and one that I wouldn’t wish upon myself.

      That’s besides the point though. The only purpose of the post was to open up some additional discussion while I try to sort everything out about where to go next with it. I already assume most everyone will want it, even if they have no intention of using it, but maybe there’ll be a few unique voices in the crowd. My main concern right now is which route would be best to promote it as a practical system.

      If I sound mysterious, it’s because I can’t openly speak about what I did without giving away how I did it. How was simple, and it was incredibly easy to figure out how to adapt simple magic techniques to do it. If I told you what I did, you’d probably be able to figure out how I did it.

      As for anyone else’s safety, I can’t even gauge the danger of the ritual until it’s been tried by a few more people. Even then though, it’s not my place to cuddle anyone else, or make a decision for them. At best, ethically I should be open about what I experienced and the possible dangers I’ve noticed, and whether or not they proceed would be their choice. I would even argue that it would be unethical for me to make that choice for them because I felt it would be best for them.

      However I’m not openly looking for participants at this time, online or off. Before I can even start doing that, regardless of what I decide, I would have to finish the last two operations, and that’s at least a month away. If I were to look for online participants though, I’d most likely just post the thing on my blog and let whoever have at it, but I have doubts very many people will attempt it if I do that.

      • diogeneia says:

        Rob, Thank you for responding. I don’t believe those extremes are/were your only two choices. Rarely are things so simply bilateral. Black and White. Good and evil. Right and Wrong. They are all ways we over-simplify so that we can justify our rationalizations.

        I do appreciate that you intend to complete your personal research before involving others. When you decide at what level to share this…I would not underestimate the voracity of individuals looking for sources or paths to power. If I charged people for the magickal things I have been begged to “undo” or fix over the years, I would be quite a wealthy woman.

  5. Michelle says:

    I am completely compelled to respond here- and I probably have very little experience with ceremonial magick- especially as a solitary and compared with you and others that have responded. However, I must respond- as my own personal philosophy on “the study of mysteries” has a strong goal- one that encompasses personal knowledge and experience, elevation of understanding of consciousness, and connection with divine, benevolent energy. Rob, as stated by diogenia, I like you, I like your voice and your honesty and your desire to share of yourself. Your statement of experiences that are negative in nature; depression and such- lead me to believe you may be going somewhere that is not for your highest good. What does your soul tell you? Yes, confrontation with the fact that reality is not what we think it is- that ” reality gets crumpled up and gets re-written” is one of the examples of what happens when we are able to see beyond the veil- but is this particular practice in your personal highest good? In my own experience with magick, I try to be always cognizant of all of myself, and use this total awareness (this total power)- when connecting with cosmic truths and energies beyond our consciousness. We must be aware of all our powers of knowing (heart, body, mind) when allowing ourselves to be channels of energies so strong. Yet, pushing the boundaries of what we deem we can experience and endure is paramount to this life, lived in awareness of “the mystery”. I only ask- are you being caring enough of all yourself as you strive to experience this power?

    • Rob says:

      When I said that I could see reality being crumpled up, I wasn’t trying to describe a confrontation with the nature of reality, I meant I could literally see it being crumpled. It looked liike a giant had was squishing it up, and then poof, new solid reality, over and over again. It created a pulsing effect, and was a rather surreal thing to see as I drove down the street.

      I’m not getting energy from some source, rather I’m producing it. Energy is a physical byproduct of emotion, and as such it has the ability to incite emotion. When you produce energy larger than what you’re capable of handling, it tends to cause intense emotions and emotional extremes, often times leading to states of depression and mania. Right now my energy production has been amped up a great deal in a very short period of time. It’s going to take some time for me to get a handle on controlling it at this level. I’m able to balance it to some degree, but it’s still difficult to do so.

      I would also argue that the lower realms, the places that cause and feed upon negative emotion, hold a great deal of knowledge and purpose in terms of ones spiritual path. The hell planes are not a pleasant place to be, but to avoid them is to limit your spirituality.

      This has been one of the issues that Western ritual magic has faced for some time now. General avoidance of the Qlippoth eventually leads Ceremonialists into spiritual dead ends. The old Kabbalists warned against those places because they were dangerous and to keep beginners away. It was always assumed that an adept would care about their warnings, and would be driven to seek out those places anyways.

      Everything has a purpose, and everything needs to be taken in moderation and kept in balance. To deny the usefulness and spiritual necessity of the lower planes is no different than being completely devoted to them. In the end the magician is kept from reaching their full potential.

      • for whatever says:

        Have you considered getting yourself checked for migraines? I’m reluctant to suggest this, but it sounds like a surprisingly dramatic aura I had once. You can get migraines without much of a headache (if any), and almost entirely without visual effects, and they do seem to accompany manic episodes (which makes them a good marker for same).

  6. Michelle says:

    Too true.. all is one. lower and higher. I agree that connection with all that is- is paramount. Yet, is there not a higher self that encompasses and transcends the higher and lower and brings one into a place that is above both? I only ask as I don’t have the same personal experience as you- yet in dealing with the polarity, in experiencing my own lower and higher- and I have my entire life- both externally and internally, have seen the importance in focusing on the lightest and most positive energy, that is feeling out what makes one feel the best- even as it encompasses the darkness? Anyway, I am sorry of this seems like a small opinion, but know it is funneled through a female channel, in which intuition is paramount. Much luck and blessings.

  7. Amonjin says:

    Hey Rob,

    I to have been away from the intranets scene to conduct my own experiments. I came back today to find this posting on your site.

    First I just want to say thank you for actually sharing the physical affects of your practice and the extreme nature of your changes. I feel that the moment one starts to explain the absolutely fucking crazy things that happen when experimenting with magic people will deem psychosis and delusions as explanations and warn that one should look to other, “higher self” alternatives.

    That being said. I think I might be one of the few who will say this. Don’t divulge much information on the operations of what your doing. It seems like you are on the fence of sharing but to what end? In my experiences, there is power in what you are doing and the moment you open that up to a vast majority that power immediately wanes, like a water main with to many tributaries leading away from the original main. Leave the Nay-Sayers, the fear mongers and the jesters out of the equation and open your workings to those that you feel can actually do something with what you have started.

    My two cents anyway….

  8. LucidDream69 says:

    I think it sounds interesting. To share or not would be a choice. Often, dangerous means beneficial. It’s like opening up kundalini: it can hurt, and has potential to harm, but the end result is well worth it. I would appreciate to see some of this stuff shared, and if only to look how such a simple experimental design, and which one, can have such results. analyzing the tech and maybe modifying it for myself futurely. And to see how an advanced magician does stuff.

    In the end, it’s law of resonance: Those who do it have it on their path. Otherwise, they could not do it. Maybe you could make a commercial PDF for a few bucks out of it, or a video series, or a small online course, so that only motivated people get access? Not to gain financially, but to filter out most of those people who would not really go for it? Maybe even with an application process? The arument from Amonjin in regard to not sharing to openly would make kind of sense for me, too.

    And sharing such stuff for free, if it is really is so easy to do, and dangerous, sounds not a good idea. Even if i can not imagine how a simple and short operation could be so dangerous and deep, but what do i know, besides “nothing”. Oh, and if you do any of this, write a disclaimer :D

    Keep going, keep playing, and keep us informed :)

    Michael

  9. Eric says:

    Let us bring some evil into this world (a call to end inaction)

  10. koldrake says:

    While I can ‘do’ some basic energy sensing, it is more ‘intuitive’ then hard study and practice. Never done rituals… so of course, the idea that a methodology which is ‘simple yet powerful’ is intriguing. Just never saw the reason for the wiccan, OTO, Kaballah, etc. ritual systems. Figured ‘programming reality’ was never meant to be ‘that convoluted’. Of course, the ‘might die’ part is kind of daunting. Will be interesting to read how this ‘two week period’ resolves itself and if you decide to continue with the last two segments… (and what the initial concept was that triggered all this). And, of course, if it does NOT mean certain death, to one day read about it (and perhaps try it out) seems pretty darn cool.

    • Rob says:

      I’ve nearly gotten to the point of doing the fifth ritual now, and I’m getting a clearer understanding of what I may have tapped into.

      It’s definitely tied into lower realm powers, and right now I’m theorizing that it may be a ritual to bring about a lower realm equivalent of merging with an HGA, although I could be mistaken about that. If it is though, it may require achieving union with one’s HGA to get the most out of it, or even to get through it.

      • Eric says:

        Not to be a beggar but really I would love to hear more from you about the HGA and the merging process. From the outset of the journey that “calls to me” as particularly significant.

        • Akyaer says:

          Same here. I’d love to hear more about the HGA merging process and especially the qlippoth. It seems like a really important feature of magick that most other sources seem to completely ignore. Speaking of which, I’m having trouble finding those books by Kenneth Grant you recommended. Any suggestions on where to look?

          Thanks again,
          ~Akyaer

  11. Akyaer says:

    I’m curious to see how the rituals all turn out. The idea of exploring those qlippothian realms does sound extremely scary but then isn’t magick something incredibly scary to begin with? There’s a certain amount of risk in changing any part of your reality. Every single action we do results in incredible changes that most people don’t see in their day to day lives but they’re there. For example, how do you know just how much putting on a certain outfit will change the reactions of people around you. It might cause ripples through reality that you won’t see, because you aren’t immediately there, but they still happen don’t they? Personally, I want to know if there’s some other goal for our spirituality than just going towards the one infinite source. It could help spiritual aspirants for generations to come and it could lead to entirely new way of looking at spiritual growth. Are we meant to travel back to the source, or is there some “next” thing we are all as a whole striving for? Curiousity killed the cat, but where’s the cat now?

    First time posting on the site, so I wanted to say thank you for all the information you put out there. It’s helped me with my spiritual growth, that’s for sure.

    Peace and Love,
    ~Akyaer

    • Rob says:

      Thank you.

      If you’re interested in the Qlippoth, you could always start with the works on Kenneth Grant. Grant attempted to add an exploration of the Qlippoth into Crowley’s system, because he saw that as the logical next step in Crowley’s work, and was kicked out of the OTO because of it. This also goes hand in hand with Fortune’s claims that Mather’s intention was an exploration of the Qlippoth in tandem with an exploration of the Sepiroth, and that this isn’t dangerous so long as the higher and lower aspects are kept in balance.

      That does seem to be the key to working with the Qlippoth too. You need the strength and independence achieved through working through the Sepiroth to survive it. Those that focus just on the lower realms usually end up being consumed by them, and if they aren’t they still aren’t strong enough to gain any power from them. Usually they end up weak, ignorant, and in servitude to a higher power.

      Unfortunately there’s not a lot of public Qlippothic information out there, at least not good information. The general consensus among the experienced has always been that a person needs to have accomplished enough in the higher realms before they start messing around with them. Unfortunately this attitude has been misread by those who have not achieved very much to mean that someone should never delve into the Qlippoth because it’s too dangerous. To deny the Qlippoth and focus only on the higher realms in ones practice is to intentionally castrate oneself. There’s no power to be found in doing that.

  12. neriphim says:

    Lol. For 50 bucks I’ll send you a “haunted” bowl of peanuts that will literally make your head spin….

    Why would anyone pay so much for something that they wouldn’t even be brave enough to create themselves? What is this, I don’t even…

  13. Chris says:

    Rob, I was wondering what your thoughts were on the idea of ‘ain’, ‘ain soph’ and ‘ain soph aur’ having qlippothic equivalents. This idea seems to contradict things you have previously written on the subject and is in conflict with my (admittedly limited) understanding of it. It seems like there is quite a bit of popularity for this idea out there and was hoping you could give your opinion. Thanks.

    • Rob says:

      There are three basic theories I know of concerning what lies beyond Thaumiel. The first theory is that nothing lies beyond Thaumiel, because it is the end of the universe in that direction, which to me seems like a completely absurd idea. It also doesn’t take into account the change of perception of the trees as one moves from the Sepiroth to the Qlippoth.

      The second theory is that Ain ect. all lie beyond Thaumiel, the same as Kether. Thaumiel and Kether are then just two different paths to the same place.

      The third theory is that an entirely different place lies beyond Thaumiel, which may or may not be a qlippothic equivalent to Ain, ect. Alternatively, this separate place may eventually lead to the same place that Ain eventually leads to.

      The problem is, the farther up the trees you go, the more reliant you become on speculation and second hand information, as opposed to first hand experience and intuition (which is far more accurate). Information start to become iffy after the second triad in both trees, and the information about the Qlippoth is even further complicated.

      The first triad of the Sepiroth can be experienced firsthand by living individuals, but it’s very hard to bring any of that experience, or information gained from it, back into the physical world. The first triad of the Qlippoth is much more difficult to experience, but not unheard of.

      Ain itself is largely based on speculation and secondhand sources. Most of the things that can get into Ain or beyond can’t get all the way down here, and most are met somewhere in the middle to exchange information. It may not be entirely impossible for you to get into Ain in this lifetime, but anything you gain from doing so you probably won’t be able to take all the way back down here with you.To move beyond Thaumiel is going to be even more difficult.

      What I’m trying to say is, it’s not something that any one really knows right now, and it’s not something that anyone has any sort of evidence one way or the other about, even subjective evidence, and not something that can really be figured out logically or channeled. Almost anything said on the subject by anyone will most likely be speculation and opinion.

      That being said, I do tend to believe that there is a Qlippothic equivalent to the Ains. I only believe that because it’s the answer that I want to be true. I like the idea of there being a choice of where to go. If you let me know what contradictory information I’ve written, I could try to look it over. It’s possible I was in error then, or I’ve changed my mind since, or I might have an idea in my head how it all melds together without contradiction.

  14. Chris says:

    Hey Rob, thanks for your response. I was referring to your article on the qlippoth. Perhaps you didn’t exactly contradict the idea but I think with omitting any qlippothic ideas beyond Thaumiel, it was easy to infer that it stopped there. It also seemed to me (on a purely theoretical basis) that the tree would be something like an ornament hanging from a string that would be ain. There would be two sides to this “ornament” but both would be contingent upon one support. But after hearing your answer I now realize the obvious which is “who really knows?” Thanks again!

  15. Use it only in a way that makes the world a better place, if opinions are really what you want.
    It’s hard to give an opinion about something I know nothing about.
    Miracles happened in our lives when we crushed the ego and began to ask,”was that humble” after everything we did or said.

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