Sex Magic and the Swinger Mentality

Sex magic is a fairly broad term that covers a lot of different practices. It includes everything from symbolically sexual rituals and intimate non-sexual rituals to actual sex and masturbation during a ritual. For the purposes of this article though, I’m only concerned with sex magic as defined as having actual ritual sex.

Sex magic is a valid and potentially powerful form of ritual magic. It can be used to reach higher states of ecstasy, to reach higher spiritual states of being, and to form stronger spiritual connections with your partner. It can also be used for more tangible gains, such as prosperity magic or love spells.

I’ve always been a strong proponent that sex magic works best within a monogamous relationship. This isn’t magic that is done by yourself, this is magic that is done in a partnership, and the strength and experience of that partnership is a lot more important than the strength and experience of the individual practitioners. To reach the higher levels of what is attainable through sex magic, it isn’t enough just to develop oneself. The practitioner needs to develop themselves inside of the confines of a partnership and in specific regards to that relationship.

Sex magic works best within a monogamous relationship, but there’s still a lot, magically, that can be gained from casual sex. Not everyone is going to be fortunate enough to be in a long term relationship with a fellow practitioner, and there’s still a lot that can be done and experimented with if you’re able to find another partner or two that’s willing to work with you.

However there’s an ideology that is counter-productive to sex magic that has entered the magical community by way of the swinger community. As far as I can tell, there are two types of swingers. There are a very few swingers who are fairly young and attractive. These people keep to their own kind, don’t associate with the other swingers, and, in the rare instance they enter the magical community, generally don’t get involved with sex magic. These folks are desirable, and there are always people willing to sleep with them.

The second type are unattractive. Many are older and even elderly, a large percentage are overweight, some of the men are underweight, most are out of shape, and some are just plain ugly. There usually isn’t anyone in this group that very many people would fantasize about sleeping with, and most people aren’t interested in seeing any of them naked. The problem the people in this group have is that the only people who will sleep with them are the other swingers like themselves. That might be fun for a while, but eventually some of these folks want to start sleeping with more attractive people. A big lure of swinging is getting to sleep with all sorts of attractive people, but that only really works if you happen to be an attractive person. This group also tends to have a high man to woman ratio, so there’s an incentive to get more willing women into the group.

One avenue some of these folks turn to is sex magic. It’s a way for these people to swing, and to hopefully bring in some younger and more attractive people with the lure of spirituality. No one is going to be enticed by the bodies these swingers have, so spirituality becomes an additional tool they can use to attract new partners.

Of course I take issue with the clear exploitation of someone else’s spirituality for sexual gain, but that isn’t the problem I want to talk right now. There’s a much bigger issue in that these swingers are damaging the effectiveness of sex magic by pushing an ideology which runs counter to it.

There’s an idea within the swinger culture that sex is not really connected to different emotions. Swingers are especially referring to love, but they also mean other emotions too. After all we’re not always in love with the people we have sex with, but that doesn’t mean that sex isn’t emotional for us. Most swingers believe that these emotional responses to sex are conditioned, as are certain other things connected to sex like intimacy and emotional closeness. They also believe that the best way to be is to recondition oneself so that all of these things are no longer connected to sex. Sex should just be a pleasurable physical act and nothing more.

This is a great ideology for a swinger. In fact I’d say it’s a necessary ideology if you want to be a swinger. How else can someone juggle an open marriage or deal with the emotional weight of having all of these various sexual partners?

When swingers move into the realm of sex magic, they bring this ideology with them. It’s a good ideology to bring with them, because it makes it easier for them to convince these young attractive people to have sex with them. Sex is promoted as a meaningless physical act, just like it is in the swinger community. The only difference is that in the swinger community the goal is physical pleasure, but here the goal is spiritual and obtained through ritual. In the magical setting sex becomes no different from drawing a circle on the ground or swinging a sword through the air. These are things most magicians wouldn’t think twice about doing if they believed it served some spiritual purpose, and these swingers would prefer it if we all thought the exact same way about having sex with them.

This is a great ideology for swingers, but a very poor ideology for magicians to have. The problem is having ritual sex is just like drawing a circle on the ground or swinging a sword through the air. If you do either of those things as a purely physical and mechanical act, it isn’t going to do shit. Your just drawing lines in the dirt and pushing aside air molecules. It’s the intent, the energy, and the emotion that goes into these acts that empower them during the ritual.

Sex works the exact same way. In fact sex is such a great ritual tool because, even with casual sex, it’s usually wrapped up in emotions and intimacy and creates such strong bonds between the practitioners. The feelings of love and friendship and acceptance, the intimacy and closeness you feel when you give yourself to someone, feeling wanted and being touched by someone else, and even the lust of being with someone you’re genuinely attracted to are the sorts of things that empower sex in ritual.

These aren’t the sort of things we, as magicians, should be trying to remove from sex. These are the sorts of things we should be embracing, and the parts of sex we should be trying to further exploit in our own spells and rituals. Sex should be about feelings, that’s where its power lies.

Of course I doubt the swinger element will care much. I’ve talked to many of them, and I honestly believe they’re exploiting spirituality to get people to have sex with them. Even the ones who do have a genuine interest in magic usually don’t understand how to properly use sex within ritual. They also tend to be the sorts that believe that the only good spiritualities are the ones that either endorse their sexual habits or have no opinion about them. They’re often very offended by people who disagree with them about sex, or think that what they’re doing might be wrong or immoral.

13 Responses to Sex Magic and the Swinger Mentality

  1. Bob Locksley says:

    Wow. This is an amazingly mundane article, revealing far more about your personal beliefs and limitations than it does about sexuality, swinging, or sex magic. From this post, it is clear that you know nothing about swinging and probably don’t know more than one or two people who admit to being swingers (at least they CLAIM to be swingers). Your analysis sounds more like it should have come from a pulpit on Sunday than on July 4, a day supposedly celebrating freedom of thought and a revolutionary disruption in what is commonly accepted.

    Please don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against what you have posted as long as you clearly point out that what you are describing are YOUR beliefs which manifest as YOUR limitations. Meanwhile, the REAL sex magicians will encourage you to write more on this–it will help keep the sex magic wanabes away from those of us who actually regularly perform sex magick. Thanks for your help!

  2. Friend says:

    Interesting blog. Interesting more because of the missed perceptions and wild assumptions threaded into a humorously logical conclusion. I clearly agree with Bob, this fable displays a complete lack of understanding of the mature swinger community.

    Perhaps we old farts have occasional difficulty finding a willing sexual partner for the evening outside the pool of other old farts – and that’s not perceived as a problem. But the genuine objective of “normal” swinger sex is the magic it throws back into the primary marital relationship in the form of a stronger marital bond. Ironically, we’re not prowling the sports bars in pursuit of as many cute young things as we can take to bed (there are perhaps a few misguided souls playing this game). We thrive on deep mutual respect and genuine sexual desire between our playmates and us – not a lack of emotion, a carefully controlled emotion. Generally, we’re more likely to find compatible emotional discipline and heart-felt respect in folks who have logged a similar number of trips around the sun.

    The magic spells we invoke through our ritual sex is NOT aimed at controlling the behavior of innocent bystanders outside the sex party, but rather aimed at managing our own internal perceptions and resulting in something of a refresher love spell between committed spouses. The spells effectively neutralize or diminish sexual habituation – and THAT is a very powerful result with a pure ethical merit that no one uninvolved in the activities was harmed in any measurable way.

    Our behaviors may appear unreasonable to an outsider looking in – and we fully understand because from the inside looking out, no explanation is possible (or necessary). Swinging, just like other forms of sex magic don’t make a damned bit of sense except to folks who actively search for the answers. I see no special value in the “magic of monogamy”.

    • Rob says:

      Are we talking about the greater swing community or the magic community right now? Your use of the term magic seems completely metaphorical to me, and it seems to me you’re primarily talking about the swinger community. For instance your use of the term swing party (usually ritual magicians would do their work in rituals, not swing parties).

      For the most part, I don’t care about the swing community. It’s not something I want to be a part of, and I’m not too concerned with whatever consenting adults are doing. As for some of the things I may have said about it, it deserves to be made fun of, if for no other reason than the fact that it is funny. Come renfair, I’ll find myself on the other side of the insults, I’m sure.

      I do however care about what’s going on in the magical community. When we’re talking about swingers in the magical community, we are talking about those ‘misguided souls who are prowling sports bars’. These are folks who have left the swinger community, and are now looking to actively recruit new partners from outside of that community.

      What’s worse, they’re using spirituality to do it. What they’re doing is telling people that they cannot evolve spiritually unless they have sex with them. Once they reach a point of leadership, it’s no different than a Christian preacher who tells his parish that they must sleep with him in order to get into heaven (and this has happened before with some of the Christian cults).

      This sort of behavior is often times easier to pull off in the magical community because the different religions and beliefs that make up that community often times don’t contain specific restrictions on sex, and many having left other religions because they were sexually restrictive, see these rules as entirely oppressive rather than sometimes being protective. With younger members it is often especially easy to convince them that they must engage in certain alternative sexual practices, regardless of what they’re actually interested in.

      I could write an entire article on the predatory aspects within the community, but for this article anyways I’m talking about the theoretical aspects of sex magic. In that regard I’m talking about the actual applications of ritual sex within magic and how it works best. I’m not being metaphorical here, these are actual practices I’m talking about. I’m not sure if we’re on the same page in that regard. For instance I wouldn’t label a swinger party as being a magical operation, and I wouldn’t say it was spiritual, except in the sense that everything is spiritual. It’s just a sexual act people are engaging in.

      • Friend says:

        How may we define “magic ritual” at the fundamental core level? When can an intentional invocation and manipulation of external energy be dismissed as a metaphor and “not real magic”?

        While it is quite unlikely most swingers perceive their hobby as practicing a magical ritual, I suggest the magic still happens in a very predictable way and swingers in general are aware of the synergy resulting from their behavior and they’re very appreciative of the invocation of “New Relationship Energy” into their old relationships. The measure of the intensity of the magic may be trivial, or a low level ritual – which works out great because it doesn’t require study in the realm of magic or even a belief in the functionality of magic to participate in the ritual or enjoy the result. Most mature swingers are focused on the result while they enjoy the fun time at the sex party. If the well known result were missing, I suggest swinger’s parties would degenerate into an orgy for the youth following a paradigm described in your original post.

        I think only the swingers that dig deep into the causes and forces behind the synergy they enjoy are likely to recognize the magic component of their rituals. That’s how I stumbled upon your blog post. I’ve enjoyed this discussion, but I think it is distracting me from my pursuit.

  3. Sierra says:

    This is somewhat of a baffling and condescending summary of the swinger community – either they meet some standard of ‘young and hot’ or they’re just ugly. Ew, those nasty ugly people, right? I guess only the stereotypically hot people should really be having sex. I’m surprised to read something so shallow and vaguely relevant. Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised – I’ve encountered a great deal of more traditional views on sexuality and appearance/attractiveness in non-mainstream environments (whether spiritual,occult or otherwise) than I’d once thought I would.

    However, I’ll remark that you’ve neglected a perfectly viable alternative in terms of partner selection, that being consensual non-monogamy, or polyamory. This may present in a variety of ways and arrangements, which might include (for example) multiple committed relationships between various partners, or relationships with varying levels of commitment vs. casual identity. In a large number of cases, though, whatever the nature of the relationship, most people seem not to characterize it as ‘meaningless sex’ – since meaningful sexuality is not exclusively the province of monogamy.

    • Rob says:

      Well if you’re not fairly young and attractive, then yes you probably are some kind of ugly, or not fairly young and attractive. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have sex. But the behavior I was talking about is being engaged in by these not so attractive swingers. The ones that are attractive don’t end up in the magical community looking for new partners for their sexual exploits. Other young and attractive people want to sleep with those swingers, and they don’t have much trouble finding these people. As to why, it should be obvious.

      The reason why I don’t discuss polyamory is because it’s not relevant to the discussion. The topic I was exploring with the article dealt with an ideology which is specific to the swinger community, and those elements of the swinger community which have come into the magical community, and how that ideology negatively impacts sex magic. It was not meant as an exploration on alternative non-monogamous relationships as a whole. Polyamory is an altogether different type of relationship, and it has its own special nuances. It’s very different than what I was talking about, and relating it to sex magic is admittedly a far more complicated subject. I would still argue that sex magic is best suited to a monogamous relationship, but this particular article wasn’t meant to deal with polyamory.

  4. Morgan says:

    I agree with Rob. I have experienced this. Some persons who claim to be into sex magic who obviously don’t have a clue. It is clear what they want when you look closely enough.

    So Rob, where does a woman find legitimate persons to practice sex magic with? Not the fakers?

    • Rob says:

      The best situation is to have a boyfriend or girlfriend who’s open to it, and then explore it with them.

      Beyond that, it’s difficult to find anyone. If you seriously bring up the subject of sex magic, even just to get a feel of who might be interested in trying some stuff out, most people are going to assume you’re trying to trick them into sex and dismiss you. At the same time you’ll probably get a few people who are super interested, but only because they want to have sex with you (and have issues getting sex otherwise).

      The only other good option, if you’re not looking for a relationship but just want to experiment, is if you have a very close and trusted friend or spiritual acquaintance who’s also interested.

  5. sandramilton says:

    Very interesting posts — all of them. But I’d like your opinion on this experience:
    Two years ago I went to see a doctor (Indian) for the first time.
    Very helpful — that’s all I thought of him. But the next day in the late afternoon I experienced something I’d never thought possible.
    I am NOW aware that it was subtle body or astral sex (though at the time I had no idea of what he was doing.) It is hard to define in words the sensation I felt. I felt but could even say saw, his subtle form — higher chakras open — and it was so loving and peaceful that I had no fear, but curiousity, as it was there for a minute or two while I was becoming conscious of what I was sensing, then with his hand he pushed energy into my root chakra, and then touched my hara.
    While I wondered what was going on, the feeling of love he had changed into the sweetest, purest yearning I had ever known, then suddenly — and I don’t know how to be subtle — it turned orgasmic for me. Then he left.

    I thought wow — what was that? Could he be thinking of me? Is that what a thought form is? I had no idea. The next day I fell ill — in a way I’d never been ill, I had all the symptoms of a flu, but without the flu, and the highest temperature I’d ever had in my life. It took me a week to recover. What happened then was that at the next appointment which HE insisted I attend, he acted in a way I could not decipher. He was obviously courting me, though in a way I could not fathom, and the next thing I knew he was gazing into my eyes intently, and I could not move. I was in a daze and his voice changed. It was soothing, gentle, loving and the next thing I know I had “tunnel vision” and I realized I was in a trance state. Conscious of this I became aware of what he was saying, he was telling me what to do in my life, giving me instructions that I was accepting and was going to say yes to. But then he turned personal, as in: “We” would be happy together.

    So that got me out of it. I thought to myself, this man is fanatic, he’s trancing me, and he’s a doctor, so he shouldn’t be. So I said no.
    Nothing happened for a minute. Then he became insane, he started whigning, his voice could hardly be defined as human. He was in despair, pathetically blaming me for not wanting it with him. He ranted and raged for about three minutes — while I, still in trance somehow kept calm. I thought, he wants me upset, but I’m not going to be upset for him. This has nothing to do with me, and this man is sick in the head. Silence for a while, then he calmed himself.
    I could feel my heart connected to his, and could not understand who he was, because he had physically changed. He was coarse, ggross looking, done for — he looked older and worn out. Fat. But
    before that he’d been thin. He looked above my head, concentrated to the maximum, and suddenly I felt something similar to a fountain open above my head, and what seemed like rain showered over my body, giving me sensations of bliss and Love — for myself. I guess it lasted two or three minutes, then the rain stopped and a wave of STRENGTH flowed over me, and I could feel myself becoming bigger, as I’d grown bigger. He was just sitting in front of me, observing, and with all the love I had in me I looked at him again,
    and to my amazement I literally SAW an iron shield coming out of his head — and I realized he was shielding himself. I had never had inner vision before, so I realized that he did not want my love.
    By then I was able to move and got up to leave. He wanted me to love him, this was obvious, but how could I love something like him?
    I didn’t even know him, so I thought “No!” He became desperate
    again, and started to rant, but in way I could not fathom, then he was loving again, setting another appointment for the following week. As I left I thought: I am never coming back to see that madman.

    But his astral visits continued, and to make a long story short I visited him five times in all. Then I stopped, but his astral visits continued for seven months, until I was so drained I could not live my life. I could not get out of bed, for two and a half months I resisted going to him — then I knew I had to. So I went back to him and confronted him. At that stage I’d gained enough awareness to know that he was a magician. He admitted trancing me and sending me energy, which I told him I knew he was doing — but would not say why, the creep! So I left him where he was — and his astral visits stopped. But what I got was not what I wanted.

    I thought I was free, instead I began to see my life falling apart. I had nothing in me. I had no “potency” in my mind, no energy, no feeling of self, nothing. I could do nothing – literally – for five months. I had been drained of everything I was, lifeforce included, and had nothing and WAS nothing. I knew it was him!

    I am now aware he is a magician, or rather, a sex magician, but most of all — a sickeningly viscious vampire magician! Where does it end, loving people? This man sent me love, undoubtedly it was love. So I thought. I trusted love. Now I can’t. He did not love me, I LOVED ME. That’s how I survived — by simply being made aware, internally, that I LOVED MYSELF. Nothing more.

    So, what of monogomy in sex in the astral or subtle planes?
    I’m all for it! Why arn’t you, seeing you do magic, those of you who posted? Why don’t you all grow up and feel mature? You “swing” to your heart’s content — and we hate your guts for it –because you swing with people who want ABSOLUTELY ZERO from you. How would it make you feel to be on the receiving end? Not very pleasant, and I am not impressed by your ‘SAVANT” love, because it’s not love.

    You call it, and it comes, but not for YOU. It goes to the other, who if he knows — gives you crap! Hope you get it.

    So to the author of the above article, I say keep your own mind and forget others’ view of your ethics, they ARE not Love, as we intend it. Good luck and be aware that Love in a human body IS monogomous, because I have tried it.

  6. sandramilton says:

    Look I’m sorry, I’ve just realized the posts did not intend “swinging” in astral terms, and I did. I’d been researching astral topics, and stumbled on your blog while googling — straight to the above article. So please disregard from:

    “So what of monogomy in sex in the astral or subtle planes?”

    I’m still interested in your opinion regarding my “encounter” with the doctor I wrote about — and will add that two months ago — after a whole fifteen months of never meeting him without a single communication–
    he returned astrally to visit. This time it was not in the evening, while I was in bed, as had always precedently been the case. He came in the afternoon, while I was with friends. I knew he was there, then he connected and WAS Love, in all it’s splendour, However he did not have the time to pass to the next emotion, as he’d always done on his previous visits (yearning) because internally, SOMETHING spoke. It was me — just me internally, but it felt HUGE, and it said, without ANY emotion: “Go away.” No moods

    So he left there and then. What are my chances of freeing myself from him? When can I say I am free? Did he invite himself or did I let him enter my aura? I had not even thought of him. He was unwanted, and that is what I keep on thinking. What can I do to free myself of him?

    Do I have to become a magician?
    I know this is the wrong forum — but it regarded sex magic — and I’m asking questions about vampiric magic, which is in a sense connected. Can you tell me what to do? I now have my vitality back, and I’m going to the beach and tanning. I feel good, sane and healthy. But I’m aware — and before I wasn’t. What can I be now?
    I was at uni when I met him. I was doing a masters in journalism.
    I got well into it, then I stopped going to him. He drained me so badly I could not leave my bed. I could not continue — so I got as far as a Graduate Certificate in Journalism instead. But I have Awareness.
    What can I write? News? I am into what I’m researching, and am into myself, too. I love what I do — and would want to carry on doing what I’m doing …writing on Awareness.

    This is my way of making sense of what happened to me — meeting a vampire magician awakened me to magic. I know how he did it.
    I know what I did. I know he did not get what he wanted. I did not too. But I know I can get it. I want Awareness, thanks to him, I have it. Nothing more is wanted from him.

    Can I get what I want? Well, we’ll see.
    Will I get rid of him? Can you advise me, please?

    • Rob says:

      It’s hard to say if he’s a vampire or not. Some of what you say makes him sound like a vampire, other parts of your story make him sound like something else. If he is a vampire, they’re a bitch to get rid of once they’ve worked themselves as far into your life as he has. I find pain to be the most effective deterrent.

      I’d also suggest filing a complaint with whatever board oversees doctors in your area. Leave out the supernatural stuff. His emotions and feelings towards you, and the way he dealt with it, is highly inappropriate.

      To free yourself from him, you need to empower yourself. Even if you manage to get rid of him, there’s still going to be that idea that he was able to control you and violate you, that you couldn’t defend yourself, and that someone else can do it to you in the future. The only way you’ll ever really be free is to find out that you’re strong enough to deal with a situation like this.

      You’ve had your break from him, and your time away. You’re feeling better. You’ve re-energized yourself. You’re becoming stronger. It’s getting to the point where you’re going to have to find out how strong you really are.

      When he astrally visits you next time, hurt him. Turn him into a bloody mess. You have a lot of rage over what he did to you. Don’t give into that. Rage is wild, it can’t really be channeled, and your magic will become weaker because of it. He’s an emotional mess. It makes him weak. Stay calm and you’ll be stronger.

      If you keep hurting him, eventually he’ll back off. I think you’ll also surprise yourself with how powerful you really are. It’ll give you the empowerment you need to free yourself from him, and it will give you the confidence and enlightenment you need to reach the next stage of your spiritual progression.

      Note that I’m recommending magical violence as a means of self-defense. I’m not advocating physical violence in any way.

      As for everything else, after a life changing spiritual event, it takes some time to figure your life, and spirituality, out. At first everything is very new and special, and you’re in such awe of it, it becomes hard to concentrate on anything else. It’s very easy to get lost in spirituality and give your life over to it completely. Eventually it loses some of its edge, and hopefully you become enlightened enough to recognize the importance of other aspects of life. At that point you get the ability to live your normal life, but at the same time your spirituality sort of seamlessly blends into every aspect of your life, so it’s still always a part of everything you do, but it’s not a defining characteristic of who you are, or what your life is about.

      It just takes time to get to that point. It also takes time to figure out exactly what your spiritual path is. And if you never figure these things out, that’s okay too. You don’t have to become a magician, you don’t have to do anything, but I recommend it. It’s fun. Enjoy it.

      • sandra says:

        Hey Rob, thanks for your reply. I appreciated your comments, and thought about what you said, and that you could not figure out if he is vampiric or what — what else could he be, seeing the level of draining I went through? Anyway, this point is very important to me, because if he is not a vampire, then I don’t understand what he did to me.

        Anyway, last week I went past his surgery, and on the spur of the moment, decided to get it out of my system, and decided to go in.
        I thought seeing I was very calm, that I would ask again what he had done to me, and why. I had done it before, and he’d admitted helping himself to my energy body — but would not say why. When I went in, I felt extremely light and focused, without any problems at all. I waited a while then asked the girl at reception how long I had to wait, and she answered about an hour. I thought I would go out and come back, she replied yes, and that’s what I did.

        When I got back to the surgery, the girl said he was sick and had gone home, so all the patients — including me, had to leave.
        I think he’s worried, as he knows I know, which is what he did not want. However, I feel better, and will leave it at that.

        One good thing has come out of this — I now enjoy my life more than I did when I was trying to get over what he had done. I hope to obtain the fruits of this experience, because I am going to give it a go to do something magic! I’ve read all your blog, and like your style. You are good, I feel it, and I like good people. So I’m taking your advice. I’m thinking I can say I’m free of him, but ofcourse I could be wrong. If he comes back, I won’t hurt him. I’ll simply go in to sit with him in his surgery. I don’t think he’ll want that — as I’m pretty certain he doesn’t want me aware. Ok, so this is my question: How can I make magic happen for me? I can try one of the four spells that I read on your blog, the money one. I am going to do it tonight. Is that enough? Or should I do something more? Can you tell me more?

        Thanks for taking the time to answer me, and I hope you find what you want — and I’d like to ask you one more thing: Why do magicians go mad? Is it their mind, because they think the wrong thing and do the wrong sprell? Is it that they want the wrong thing, or is it that they go against the Law? To me, magic has a Law, and it’s Love. So to go out of the Law means putting yourself in a position of “lovelessness.” Which brings to linking with dark or grim energies. Am I wrong?

        Love your work

  7. Karen S says:

    At what age does a person become old and ugly? And to what age group does that person become “unattractive” to? I know women and men who I consider sexually attractive who are over 40, is that too old? These people are in good physical shape thanks to exercise, a good diet, good hygeine or just plain good genetics. Some of these old ugly people are professional personal fitness trainers. I was a little taken aback to read a similar viewpoint of yours put in your other article I originally read, about the pedophilia of Gavin and Yvonne Frost. I’m glad to have read that article, but your addition of this type of rubbish is annoying at best. Remember, young man, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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